New York Times ridicules Qataris

[qatarperegrine]

Today's New York Times published a rather biting article about the conflict between Qataris and non-Qataris in Qatar: Affluent Qataris Seek What Money Cannot Buy.

Qataris' and non-Qataris' stereotypes of each other is something I've been thinking about a lot this summer, between the Lisa Clayton kerfuffle and the recent arguments over on Mimiz Blog about whether Qataris are discriminated against in the workplace here.

So it's nice to see the New York Times addressing something that I think IS a hot issue here (their last article on Qatar having been a little random)... but the way they go about it makes me cringe a little. I think it'd be more interesting for them to have dug deeper into Qatarization and its effects, or the role of nationality in expats' experience of Qatar, rather than just making mocking digs about people's restaurant etiquette.

The main things I've heard discussed about this locally are (a) the unrepresentativeness of the Qatari interviewees, almost all of whom are high school dropouts, and (b) shock that the NYT got these quotes on record. I am completely unsurprised that a director at QSTP would privately feel that "Qataris are very spoiled," but utterly astonished that he would say so to a New York Times reporter. (Some even suspect they might not have known they were on record.)

Comments

Re: Infantile NY Times

[(Anonymous)]

"Are you saying Qatar is a dump, and there's no other reason to go there? How pathetic."

Thank you for asking and answering your own question.

Secondly, all Qataris are my brothers and sisters and I will stand up for them. Frankly the "insight" that Marjorie so kindly offered (as if she were a Colonial master) is irrelevant. If people like Slackman think for a second that a nation of brainwashed Americans who couldn't identify Africa on a map are more educated than Qataris, then they are deluded. Qatar is the epitome of hospitality, generosity and courage - and unfortunately this creates a lot of jealousy from people.

Thirdly, calling me a moron won't help you, it only makes you look challenged... on multiple levels. Incidentally, you sound like a loser - which I believe answers your last question.

Re: Infantile NY Times

[qatar.livejournal.com]

Well, I do think that irritating anonymous dude brought up an interesting point. EVERY time I say something critical of Qatar, someone accuses me of being a greedy bastard who only came here to take advantage of Qatar's riches. Why do Qataris assume that I wouldn't live here unless bribed? We don't assume that about people who move to Thailand or Italy.

"Frankly the 'insight' that Marjorie so kindly offered (as if she were a Colonial master) is irrelevant."

OK, let's recap. You said, "I challenge anyone to refute that Qataris are, on balance, welcoming and respectful to their guests." I responded that Qatar is NOT on balance welcoming and respectful to immigrant laborers, as evidenced by the lack of legal protections for these laborers (e.g., no minimum wage, no labor law for housemaids, the exit visa system, the fact that abusing or killing a maid results in tiny penalties if any, etc.).

Instead of counterarguing against any of this, you instead respond that I can't ever understand your culture, that my views are those of a colonial master, and anything I have to say is irrelevant because I have the wrong passport, or wrong genes, or something.

That is not a counterargument. You can't challenge someone to refute a point and then tell them their refutation is irrelevant because "you just can't understand us." That's a total cop-out. As another commenter has noted, if we really accepted that premise, then no non-Israeli would ever be able to say "Israeli checkpoints are bad" and no non-American would ever be able to say "Huh, maybe Bush shouldn't have bombed the fuck out of Iraq after all." Is that seriously what you're suggesting? It's difficult for me to believe that you really hold such a nihilist viewpoint on the possibility of crosscultural communication. (For starters, if you really believed that, you wouldn't bother posting anything here at all, because I could never learn anything from you.)

Re: Infantile NY Times

[(Anonymous)]

Marjorie, are you so arrogant as to believe that you could possibly have some divine insight into our culture that we don't have? Is it time to enlighten the 'natives'? Is this a country of idiots completely bereft of any capacity for self-analysis? If so, then I owe you an apology, as clearly we should be rolling out the red carpet for you. I don't expect you to be able to grasp how arrogant your stance is. By all means, have an opinion, nobody is saying that you can't, but please don't think for a moment that your are enlightening us in any way.

Re: Infantile NY Times

[qatar.livejournal.com]

If you want to have a discussion about whether there are any circumstances under which one may have something worthwhile to say about another culture, then I'd like to hear your answers to the anonymous commenter's questions (Frenchies this, Frenchies that).

Right now you seem to just be saying the same things over and over. If all you want to do is reiterate my character flaws, then I don't think the conversation is really going to be productive.

Re: Infantile NY Times

[(Anonymous)]

When did Marjorie EVER say that she had any "divine insight" into the local culture, or that the locals weren't capable of that themselves? It seems to me that she's arguing that it is useful and proper for non-citizens to voice their opinions about their host country's policies and practices because they generally see things from a different angle and can provide a unique perspective. She's not arguing that foreigners have inherently more correct ideas and thoughts than the locals -- only that they, too, have valuable opinions to share on the subject.

Dealing with and debating people who disagree with you forces you to articulate your own stance more clearly, either strengthening your argument or highlighting why your argument isn't as soundly based as you perhaps thought.
I would think that is something Qatar and Qataris would welcome. It's certainly something that those of us involved in education try to encourage and foster among our students.

And just in case you don't know Marjorie personally, she's one of the least arrogant people you'll ever come across in your life. Calling her "arrogant" is like calling Cristiano Ronaldo "clumsy".

Re: Infantile NY Times

[qatar.livejournal.com]

OK, I don't know who Cristiano Ronaldo is, but I'm going to assume that was a compliment. Thanks! :-)

Re: Infantile NY Times

[(Anonymous)]

I think Marjorie is trying to have a discussion, where Qataris and non-Qataris talk about things together, and by talking together, maybe we can all learn something new.

Here is something stupid:
- Foreigners don't know shit about Qatar.

The opposite is also stupid:
- Foreigners will definitely enlighten Qataris about Qatar.

This is not stupid, and is smart:
- Some foreigners and some Qataris have valuable insights into Qatar, and everyone can learn from them.

Re: Infantile NY Times

[(Anonymous)]

A: "Are you saying Qatar is a dump, and there's no other reason to go there? How pathetic."

B: "Thank you for asking and answering your own question."

C (that's me): "B, you don't understand what A said, do you. Read it again..."

Re: Infantile NY Times

[(Anonymous)]

Mr. Grumpy, I think you'll find you were perfectly understood. Your question was a rhetorical question, which is essentially a non-question, hence, no need to waste one's time answering a non-question. The only answer (that matters) for a rhetorical question is the message (answer) the questioner is eluding to. So you answered it when you asked it.

Re: Infantile NY Times

[(Anonymous)]

No, idiot, I think you still don't understand. You (presumably you) wrote:

"No doubt you do earn your pay Marjorie but I bet Qatar pays you an awful lot more than your home country would."

That means you think all expats go to Qatar to get a pay raise. That means you think the only good thing about Qatar is money. But in reality, many expats go to Qatar for reasons other than their salary. So that means they love Qatar more than you do.

Aren't you ashamed that you hate your own country?

Re: Infantile NY Times

[(Anonymous)]

Shall I explain what a rhetorical question is again, in a simpler way for you to understand.

When you asked your RHETORICAL question, the answer was contained within the question, hence you "asked and answered" it. You said, "Are you saying Qatar is a dump, and there's no other reason to go there? How pathetic." ...which really means >>> "how pathetic to say that Qatar is a dump and money is the only reason people would go there."

As i explained, I understood perfectly well and unfortunately I think it is you who are not capable of grasping what I said. I hope this simpler version works. You should not assume either that it is only Qataris who defend Qatar.

I'm sorry that you have to resort to rudeness by insulting me and I am mature enough not to retaliate.

Re: Infantile NY Times

[(Anonymous)]

"I'm sorry that you have to resort to rudeness by insulting me and I am mature enough not to retaliate."

That's retalition, right there. Basic passive aggressive retaliation.

OOPS, GUESS YOU MESSED THAT ONE UP.

Re: Infantile NY Times

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think we need expats like you here. All other posters are able to discuss on the whole quite politely, while challenging each other, and I understand that tempers can flare sometimes, including mine. But I'm truly sorry that such a rude and abnoxious person was given the chance to enjoy Qatar's generosity.

I think I have outstayed my time on this blog. Good day.

Re: Infantile NY Times

[(Anonymous)]

Someone who makes such an illogical inference, taking
1) "I bet Qatar pays you an awful lot more than your home country would" ... to mean.... 2)"you think the only good thing about Qatar is money" is not someone with a rational head on his/her shoulders. It is an illogical leap that you make and discredits you completely -which is why your rhetorical questions was ignored and I sarcastically thanked you for asking and answering.

Re: Infantile NY Times

[(Anonymous)]

"I bet Qatar pays you an awful lot more than your home country would ..."

That was supposed to be an insult, a reason to ignore Marjorie's words. In my limited experience, nearly every discussion of expats in Qatar involves someone saying, "Expats only come to Qatar for the big money." And here, like often happens, it's just not true.

So either the anonymous commenter was trying to use empty rhetoric to fuck with Marjorie, or else the anonymous commenter couldn't imagine why expats would go to Qatar. You tell me which.