qatarperegrine | New York Times ridicules Qataris

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New York Times ridicules Qataris

Today's New York Times published a rather biting article about the conflict between Qataris and non-Qataris in Qatar: Affluent Qataris Seek What Money Cannot Buy.

Qataris' and non-Qataris' stereotypes of each other is something I've been thinking about a lot this summer, between the Lisa Clayton kerfuffle and the recent arguments over on Mimiz Blog about whether Qataris are discriminated against in the workplace here.

So it's nice to see the New York Times addressing something that I think IS a hot issue here (their last article on Qatar having been a little random)... but the way they go about it makes me cringe a little. I think it'd be more interesting for them to have dug deeper into Qatarization and its effects, or the role of nationality in expats' experience of Qatar, rather than just making mocking digs about people's restaurant etiquette.

The main things I've heard discussed about this locally are (a) the unrepresentativeness of the Qatari interviewees, almost all of whom are high school dropouts, and (b) shock that the NYT got these quotes on record. I am completely unsurprised that a director at QSTP would privately feel that "Qataris are very spoiled," but utterly astonished that he would say so to a New York Times reporter. (Some even suspect they might not have known they were on record.)

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"I agree with you that the article has a hostile slant, but I don't see any reason to think they made up the quotes."

Quotes are only accurate if taken in context. I don't believe the journalist reported what was said in the context in which it was said.

"Frankly, no. I have enjoyed my years in Qatar and feel generally positive about what this country is doing, but I don't think I ought to feel "gratitude" that I get paid. I earn my pay; it's not charity"

No doubt you do earn your pay Marjorie but I bet Qatar pays you an awful lot more than your home country would. It's not a matter of gratitude for getting paid, it's about not taking things for granted and recognizing that you are part of Qatar's growth but also an ingredient of the tensions the article 'discusses'. If a country is putting itself on the line to grow and improve, and the people it brings in to join in that process do nothing but belittle and criticize the country and the locals, then I imagine if the shoe were on the other foot you would feel pretty annoyed too - perhaps not. Remember that while you contend with a lot of frustrations living here, Qataris are also contending with their own frustrations with respect to its expatriate population. I suggest less finger pointing and more trying to understand Qataris - that is the only way that different views and cultures can get along.

"I think immigrants ought to be free to be frank about the things they love and the things they dislike about their adopted country; that should be true for Moroccans who are upset about the burqa ban in France, and it should be true for Americans who are upset about the family day policies in Qatar."

I'm not surprised that you don't understand this culture - so I have no comment for the upset Americans.

"If by "guests" you mean skilled Western expats, I agree. However, if you include Indian laborers and Indonesian nannies, then I think Qataris are on the whole very VERY far from being welcoming and respectful."

Don't be too keen to judge Marjorie. Let Qataris be the ones to have that conversation. Taking the moral high-ground is so typically expat.

"No doubt you do earn your pay Marjorie but I bet Qatar pays you an awful lot more than your home country would."

I took a pay cut to move to Qatar, thank you very much.

"Remember that while you contend with a lot of frustrations living here, Qataris are also contending with their own frustrations with respect to its expatriate population."

Oh, I very much agree. Just a couple hours ago I was chatting with someone about what Maryam said over at Mimiz Blog about feeling powerless over the way her government chooses to spend her money... that must be intensely frustrating. When have I said Qataris don't have frustrations?

"Don't be too keen to judge Marjorie. Let Qataris be the ones to have that conversation. Taking the moral high-ground is so typically expat."

You seem to be arguing that nobody should be able to comment on a culture in any meaningful way unless they're an insider. I think that doesn't work. Or do you think only Americans should be able to have an opinion on whether Bush was a good president or not?

Immigrants often have insight into the successes and failures of a culture that people who grew up there don't have, just as Alexis de Tocqueville was able to give a more insightful view of 19th century America than an American could have done. I expect immigrants to my country to express their views and get involved in politics -- how else can my culture learn and grow? So I'm not holding a double-standard by saying that after 6 years in Qatar I think I should be entitled to say, for example, that the lack of a labor law covering housemaids is directly responsible for significant human rights abuses. I don't think I need to have a Qatari passport to have an opinion on that topic.

And I don't think I'm taking the moral high ground, because I'm not pretending that the U.S. doesn't have extremely serious social ills and political problems that result in US committing human rights abuses too. But this is a blog about my life in Qatar, so I talk about Qatar here. :-)

"Immigrants often have insight into the successes and failures of a culture that people who grew up there don't have, just as Alexis de Tocqueville was able to give a more insightful view of 19th century America than an American could have done."

Marjorie, since we started this string of debate, let me add my final word. I know you don't mean to be condescending but this is cringeworthy stuff that you're writing. Your "insight" into our culture is not required, thanks. And I maintain that non-Qataris don't have a right to judge Qatar - because believe it or not Qataris are intelligent enough to do it for themselves as you can see by some of the Qatari posters here.

All the best.

Well obviously the views of immigrants aren't a SUBSTITUTE for the views of residents, but I think it's frankly absurd to assert that outsiders aren't ALLOWED to have opinions about cultures. Do you not have an opinion on female genital mutilation in Africa? Do you not have an opinion about whether the rape of Nanking or the My Lai massacre was OK? We make judgments all the time about things that other cultures do. Obviously we should be very careful when we do so, to make sure we understand the context, but I think it's extremely naive to pretend that we don't or shouldn't make those judgments at all.

I think for a Westerner to come in and offer her "insight" into a Muslim culture is frankly laughable.

Based on your advocacy of moral relativism, I guess you can't object to a claim like: "I think for an Arab to come and offer her "insight" into a secular humanist/Christian/Hebrew culture is frankly laughable."

I guess I'll remember that the next time I hear a Qatari complain about
- Banning the veil in France (Frenchies this; Frenchies that") or
- Being racially profiled by U.S. customs and police ("Yankies this; Yankies that") or
- Those checkpoints on Israel sovereign territory ("Jewy this; Jewy that") or
- That the rest of the world finds the thought of a Qatar-hosted World Cup hilarious ("Beckham this; Beckham that").

It is mildly surprising to learn that you believe the opinions of the Qatari are completely irrelevant to anything involving the outside world.

You're judging non-Qataris right now. If you get to judge non-Qataris, they get to judge you. Cope.

As for what's "required", well hell, your idiocy is not required. Say something worth reading and quit wasting our time.

(deleted comment)

Jerkface, I actually had something worthwhile to say. Maybe you should go read it again. This comment of yours was pointless, though.

What's a "right", anyway?

Insight:
1. an instance of apprehending the true nature of a thing, esp. through intuitive understanding
2. penetrating mental vision or discernment; faculty of seeing into inner character or underlying truth.
3.Psychology.
a.an understanding of relationships that sheds light on or helps solve a problem.
b.(in psychotherapy) the recognition of sources of emotional difficulty.
c. an understanding of the motivational forces behind one's actions, thoughts, or behavior; self-knowledge.

Please elaborate on your "ability to apprehend the true nature" of Qatari and/or Muslim culture, your "intuitive understanding", "penetrating mental vision" and "faculty of seeing into inner character and underlying truth" of the Qatari and/or Muslim culture. Please explain, in addition, how many deep and close Qatari friendships you have forged in order to support this marvellous "insight".

I never said I had insight on Qatari culture. I made a general point that immigrants sometimes have insights that insiders don't, and I was making that comment in the context of NON-Americans having insight into AMERICAN culture.

I think this is the central point you're missing here about my argument. I'm not saying white people should tell non-white people how to run their countries; I'm saying that the views of immigrants of any type should not be summarily dismissed simply because they're immigrants. I suspect you agree that it's xenophobic and racist when Arizonans do that to Mexicans and when French do it to Moroccans. What is different when Qataris do it to Indians or Germans?

How convenient -- and sad, really -- that you think nobody but a Qatari passport holder is capable of exhibiting "an understanding of relationships that sheds light on or helps solve a problems".

But you're probably right. I am sure that Saif Saeed Assad and Salem Jaber have a much deeper understanding of life here than an interested foreigner who has spent years working with and educating local young people. ;-)

Hey moron, lots of people go to Qatar and make about what they'd make at home.

Do you think people only go there for the big paycheck? Are you saying Qatar is a dump, and there's no other reason to go there? How pathetic.

"The people it brings in to join in that process do nothing but belittle and criticize the country and the locals..." <-- Do any of these people exist? I never met one.

"Are you saying Qatar is a dump, and there's no other reason to go there? How pathetic."

Thank you for asking and answering your own question.

Secondly, all Qataris are my brothers and sisters and I will stand up for them. Frankly the "insight" that Marjorie so kindly offered (as if she were a Colonial master) is irrelevant. If people like Slackman think for a second that a nation of brainwashed Americans who couldn't identify Africa on a map are more educated than Qataris, then they are deluded. Qatar is the epitome of hospitality, generosity and courage - and unfortunately this creates a lot of jealousy from people.

Thirdly, calling me a moron won't help you, it only makes you look challenged... on multiple levels. Incidentally, you sound like a loser - which I believe answers your last question.

Well, I do think that irritating anonymous dude brought up an interesting point. EVERY time I say something critical of Qatar, someone accuses me of being a greedy bastard who only came here to take advantage of Qatar's riches. Why do Qataris assume that I wouldn't live here unless bribed? We don't assume that about people who move to Thailand or Italy.

"Frankly the 'insight' that Marjorie so kindly offered (as if she were a Colonial master) is irrelevant."

OK, let's recap. You said, "I challenge anyone to refute that Qataris are, on balance, welcoming and respectful to their guests." I responded that Qatar is NOT on balance welcoming and respectful to immigrant laborers, as evidenced by the lack of legal protections for these laborers (e.g., no minimum wage, no labor law for housemaids, the exit visa system, the fact that abusing or killing a maid results in tiny penalties if any, etc.).

Instead of counterarguing against any of this, you instead respond that I can't ever understand your culture, that my views are those of a colonial master, and anything I have to say is irrelevant because I have the wrong passport, or wrong genes, or something.

That is not a counterargument. You can't challenge someone to refute a point and then tell them their refutation is irrelevant because "you just can't understand us." That's a total cop-out. As another commenter has noted, if we really accepted that premise, then no non-Israeli would ever be able to say "Israeli checkpoints are bad" and no non-American would ever be able to say "Huh, maybe Bush shouldn't have bombed the fuck out of Iraq after all." Is that seriously what you're suggesting? It's difficult for me to believe that you really hold such a nihilist viewpoint on the possibility of crosscultural communication. (For starters, if you really believed that, you wouldn't bother posting anything here at all, because I could never learn anything from you.)

Marjorie, are you so arrogant as to believe that you could possibly have some divine insight into our culture that we don't have? Is it time to enlighten the 'natives'? Is this a country of idiots completely bereft of any capacity for self-analysis? If so, then I owe you an apology, as clearly we should be rolling out the red carpet for you. I don't expect you to be able to grasp how arrogant your stance is. By all means, have an opinion, nobody is saying that you can't, but please don't think for a moment that your are enlightening us in any way.

If you want to have a discussion about whether there are any circumstances under which one may have something worthwhile to say about another culture, then I'd like to hear your answers to the anonymous commenter's questions (Frenchies this, Frenchies that).

Right now you seem to just be saying the same things over and over. If all you want to do is reiterate my character flaws, then I don't think the conversation is really going to be productive.

When did Marjorie EVER say that she had any "divine insight" into the local culture, or that the locals weren't capable of that themselves? It seems to me that she's arguing that it is useful and proper for non-citizens to voice their opinions about their host country's policies and practices because they generally see things from a different angle and can provide a unique perspective. She's not arguing that foreigners have inherently more correct ideas and thoughts than the locals -- only that they, too, have valuable opinions to share on the subject.

Dealing with and debating people who disagree with you forces you to articulate your own stance more clearly, either strengthening your argument or highlighting why your argument isn't as soundly based as you perhaps thought.
I would think that is something Qatar and Qataris would welcome. It's certainly something that those of us involved in education try to encourage and foster among our students.

And just in case you don't know Marjorie personally, she's one of the least arrogant people you'll ever come across in your life. Calling her "arrogant" is like calling Cristiano Ronaldo "clumsy".

OK, I don't know who Cristiano Ronaldo is, but I'm going to assume that was a compliment. Thanks! :-)

I think Marjorie is trying to have a discussion, where Qataris and non-Qataris talk about things together, and by talking together, maybe we can all learn something new.

Here is something stupid:
- Foreigners don't know shit about Qatar.

The opposite is also stupid:
- Foreigners will definitely enlighten Qataris about Qatar.

This is not stupid, and is smart:
- Some foreigners and some Qataris have valuable insights into Qatar, and everyone can learn from them.

A: "Are you saying Qatar is a dump, and there's no other reason to go there? How pathetic."

B: "Thank you for asking and answering your own question."

C (that's me): "B, you don't understand what A said, do you. Read it again..."

Mr. Grumpy, I think you'll find you were perfectly understood. Your question was a rhetorical question, which is essentially a non-question, hence, no need to waste one's time answering a non-question. The only answer (that matters) for a rhetorical question is the message (answer) the questioner is eluding to. So you answered it when you asked it.

No, idiot, I think you still don't understand. You (presumably you) wrote:

"No doubt you do earn your pay Marjorie but I bet Qatar pays you an awful lot more than your home country would."

That means you think all expats go to Qatar to get a pay raise. That means you think the only good thing about Qatar is money. But in reality, many expats go to Qatar for reasons other than their salary. So that means they love Qatar more than you do.

Aren't you ashamed that you hate your own country?

Shall I explain what a rhetorical question is again, in a simpler way for you to understand.

When you asked your RHETORICAL question, the answer was contained within the question, hence you "asked and answered" it. You said, "Are you saying Qatar is a dump, and there's no other reason to go there? How pathetic." ...which really means >>> "how pathetic to say that Qatar is a dump and money is the only reason people would go there."

As i explained, I understood perfectly well and unfortunately I think it is you who are not capable of grasping what I said. I hope this simpler version works. You should not assume either that it is only Qataris who defend Qatar.

I'm sorry that you have to resort to rudeness by insulting me and I am mature enough not to retaliate.

"I'm sorry that you have to resort to rudeness by insulting me and I am mature enough not to retaliate."

That's retalition, right there. Basic passive aggressive retaliation.

OOPS, GUESS YOU MESSED THAT ONE UP.

I don't think we need expats like you here. All other posters are able to discuss on the whole quite politely, while challenging each other, and I understand that tempers can flare sometimes, including mine. But I'm truly sorry that such a rude and abnoxious person was given the chance to enjoy Qatar's generosity.

I think I have outstayed my time on this blog. Good day.

Someone who makes such an illogical inference, taking
1) "I bet Qatar pays you an awful lot more than your home country would" ... to mean.... 2)"you think the only good thing about Qatar is money" is not someone with a rational head on his/her shoulders. It is an illogical leap that you make and discredits you completely -which is why your rhetorical questions was ignored and I sarcastically thanked you for asking and answering.

"I bet Qatar pays you an awful lot more than your home country would ..."

That was supposed to be an insult, a reason to ignore Marjorie's words. In my limited experience, nearly every discussion of expats in Qatar involves someone saying, "Expats only come to Qatar for the big money." And here, like often happens, it's just not true.

So either the anonymous commenter was trying to use empty rhetoric to fuck with Marjorie, or else the anonymous commenter couldn't imagine why expats would go to Qatar. You tell me which.

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New York Times ridicules Qataris

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