qatarperegrine | Tolerance of cultural diversity: In defense of Dubai

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Tolerance of cultural diversity: In defense of Dubai

Imagine, for a moment, an immensely unlikely scenario: a Sentinelese couple decides to emigrate to the US. They pack up their best harpoons and adzes, hop on a plane to JFK, and settle into their new life in New York City.

And, of course, being Sentinelese, they do this all while stark naked.

How tolerant would Americans be of their public nudity?

Bonus question: how tolerant would Americans be of the fact that the Sentinelese have sex in public?

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My friends and me at the beach in Qatar

As I write this, the top story on CNN is about a British couple who face jail time in Dubai over "kissing and touching each other intimately in public ... and consuming alcohol." Many of the comments being posted voice viewpoints similar to these:

"Muslims go to Western countries and insist on following their own customs, so they ought not kick when Westerners go to theirs and follow Western customs" -Dorothea7

"When a muslim comes to the United States they want and expect us to allow them to keep their religious and cultural identities whether it conforms to our standards or not. There are many lawsuits against our gov. and businesses to allow them to wear clothing that does not reveal their faces or have special work place considerations of their religion and culture. If an American or infidel goes to a moslem country they are immediately put under control of their moslem standards or worse the all incriminating sharia law. Where is the fairness? There isn't. Moslems travel the world expecting their culture to overrule others while citizens of other countries are prosecuted in their's." -isntitgreat

OK, time for a reality check of Dubai's concessions to Western customs. In a culture that views all body parts other than the hands and face as private, Dubai allows Westerners to gallavant around in bikinis. In a culture that views pork as unclean and ungodly, Dubai sells pork to Westerners in grocery stores. In a culture that views alcohol as inherently immoral, Dubai imports alcohol and opens bars for non-Muslim expats.

What would the US have to do to show similar levels of tolerance? We'd definitely have to let those Sentinelese people run around naked, and possibly have public sex. We'd also have to open dog-meat sections in our grocery stores and and open opium dens in our hotels for immigrants and tourists. That's the level of tolerance Dubai (and Doha) shows to Western culture. So, while the behaviors they tolerate may not seem huge to us, if you consider how far Western behaviors fall outside the range of behavior permissible in their own culture, I think they have a far larger tolerance ratio than the US does. While I'm certainly not arguing that the US is an intolerant country, it certainly seems very parochial of us to act as though we have a lot to teach the Gulf countries about tolerating cultural diversity.

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Excellent point. You are most correct.
Thank you for your essay.
Best wishes.

I'm all for letting anyone who wants to run around nekkid.
Well, some people shouldn't be nekkid but that's a fashion statement rather than a moral statement.

From there, Dubai is only after the money. They have to let westerners do their thing in order o make money.
If they could enforce their laws and make money, you can bet the would.

Certainly Dubai has an economic interest in attracting Westerners. The US has traditionally had economic interests in attracting immigrants, too, though; I don't know that you can argue that we became a pro-immigrant country because we just decided it was the Right Thing to Do.

Also, your argument is less true for Qatar. They really don't need to impress Westerners; they can be the richest people in the world just by selling us their natural gas. So they do have a choice about how much to protect their traditional culture, and they STILL choose to let me wear a bikini.

Well, yes. But my thought is that they need to show everyone how progressive they can be in order to make that sale.
I could be totally wrong, but that's my gut.

How do you figure that? Both Saudi Arabia and Iran are considerably less progressive than either Dubai or Qatar, and they STILL have the world in their palm. Oil - you can't really get it anywhere else, so they don't really care about "being nice".

qatar, I think your point is very valid one. Another more private example is that a Muslim with multiple wives, can't really immigrate to the USA, at least not and keep their legally created family together. And this isn't even really an in-your-face "public" issue

Shmuel, that's another good example. In fact, practicing (or even HAVING practiced) polygamy is considered "moral turpitude" for immigration purposes and bars you from citizenship.

In addition to what Shmuel said, it's worth noting that almost all Qatar's LNG exports are to Asia. China's been increasing its LNG consumption a lot lately... do you think it cares how progressive Qatar is? :-)

On the other hand, I'd have no problem accepting the Sentinelese actions in public, although I'd rather they don't harpoon me.

oops, that was me.

Interesting comparisons.

But if this couple goes to jail for a month for kissing in public in Dubai, that's no comparison. I don't think that people caught having sex in public in the USA would spend more than a week in jail.

actually, depending on the state in the US, they could possibly end up permanently on a sex-offender registry

Maybe the things you think are culturally impermissible in Qatar and Dubai are not so bad after all. How many Qataris secretly drink and look at internet porn? Perhaps what you currently think is forbidden is in reality far less forbidden than you have heretofore conceived it to be. What I'm trying to say is, your Dubai example sucks. :)

There are many ways to permit cultural diversity. Speech. Religion. Alcohol. Education. Clothing. The list goes on. In some categories, America wins, and in others it doesn't. But what really doesn't win are claims like: "What would the US have to do to show similar levels of tolerance? We'd definitely have to let those Sentinelese people run around naked, and possibly have public sex."

-Marshall Matherz-

(deleted comment)

You've just shown exactly what I wanted to show -- some things are widely practiced privately, and everyone knows it, and they are forbidden in public. To call such things culturally forbidden is nonsensical.

Because Dubai and Qatar endorse secret private boozing, doesn't that actually mean public foreigner boozing is a rather trivial thing? I think it does! Quit wasting my time.

Marshall Matherz

I think saying it's "rather trivial" shows a lack of understanding of the importance of the private/public divide, particularly in this culture, but really everywhere.

Or do you think it would be "a rather trivial thing" in the US if someone started masturbating in public? After all, that's widely practiced privately.

The issue here is that the "forbidden" action is doing these things IN PUBLIC, not doing these things at all.

N.B.: This blog does not endorse snogging with harpoon guns.

(deleted comment)

Hey, I didn't say I'd criminalize it; I just don't personally recommend it. Splinters.

"That's the level of tolerance Dubai (and Doha) shows to Western culture. So, while the behaviors they tolerate may not seem huge to us, if you consider how far Western behaviors fall outside the range of behavior permissible in their own culture, I think they have a far larger tolerance ratio than the US does. While I'm certainly not arguing that the US is an intolerant country, it certainly seems very parochial of us to act as though we have a lot to teach the Gulf countries about tolerating cultural diversity."

This is a broad sweeping claim that is barely supported by the evidence above. It may or may not be true, but when I read it here, I have little reason to accept it.

-dpp

if you consider how far Western behaviors fall outside the range of behavior permissible in their own culture, I think they have a far larger tolerance ratio than the US does.
How useful is this ratio as a basis for comparing countries? In this case, I don't see that it sheds light on very much besides the fact that Gulf countries are smaller and more homogeneous than the United States. From what I can tell, local populations are in many respects far less receptive to outside cultural influences than they were before oil money brought in large numbers of temporary workers. Dress codes are now standardized by governments, exogamy is discouraged, and permanent immigration is all but impossible. The rhetoric I see in the papers is all about protecting indigenous culture from outside influences; there is remarkably little mixing going on.

Second, I believe your analogy above deserves some caveats. To be sure, ten naked Sentinelese would fit in poorly in rural Louisiana, or indeed New York City. But what if they made up a significant proportion of the population? Would it be possible that their way of life would soon be tolerated, or even seen as normal, once Americans got over their initial revulsion? Especially if they'd been there for decades, with Americans traveling regularly to their homeland and being immersed in media from their part of the world?

Finally, Dubai's openness to things like alcohol, sex, and other things behind closed doors falls within a gray zone. As you know, plenty of things are illegal but generally tolerated. This offers plausible deniability for a government afraid of the popular reaction to full legalization, and allows outsiders to behave mostly as they would back home, provided they can show some discretion. For most people, it suffices. But every once in a while, somebody falls between the cracks and finds they have no protection from prosecution. Doubtless, many feel betrayed by the gap between an implicit promise of a Western lifestyle and the reality of this not being grounded in law. I think this is why Dubai in particular is likely to see more such stories per capita than Saudi Arabia about any given offense.

I think I should cut myself off here, lest I risk writing an entire post on your blog.

I'm certainly not arguing that Khaleeji people are remarkably receptive to outside cultural influences or that the actions I'm listing above aren't tacitly accepted behind closed doors. I think you're right that real cultural diversity has a lot more aspects than just letting foreigners get away with doing haram things... but that's all I was focusing on here, because I think most Americans commenting on the CNN post were wrong about that specific point.

The point about having a significant Sentinelese minority is an interesting one. American society definitely has morphed through the years as different minorities have joined it, so perhaps if that were to occur, American mores would change to allow it.

is the hypocrisy. All of these things do go on in private AMONG the local (ie, Qatari and Emirati) populations. But for political reasons (read: to keep the more conservative elements happy so TPTB can continue on with their agenda), they choose occasional and random cases to prosecute. It's like throwing a bone to the more conservative elements of society without having any real policy that is followed and enforced with regularity. We do it in the US, too; and I don't like it any better when we do it. I hate the law being applied arbitrarily for political mean -- anywhere.

Regards,
Lisa

Thanks for that post..
i really enjoyed reading this. It's a very interesting topic, I never looked at it that way! I've always thought or made to think that western countries/cultures are more tolerant in general.

Hi, here via dubaiwalla. Nicely put! May I friend/link?

Definitely! Sorry for the late reply.

hey Marjorie,

Thanks for this post and what you say is true. The issue here is that they did what they did in public. If they have done it privately, they would have saved themselves a lot of trouble. Dubai is in UAE and last time I checked, it is an Arab country and a Muslim country. There are many things that are allowed in Dubai, however, there is a limit to everything. As you said no one will tolerate seeing naked people running around in America. Tourists should learn about these cultural differences and should not ignore them.

Thanks again,

Yes Marjorie. It is amazing how flexible a place becomes when it is actively seeking tourist dollars and foreign expertise. Perhaps you should apply for full citizenship there. Oh thats right as a foreigner your not allowed!!

Controlled, there is literally some admissible points on here some of my readers inclination perhaps ascertain this relevant, will send a tie-in, various thanks.
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Tolerance of cultural diversity: In defense of Dubai

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How so?

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The thing I don't like about the Dubai and Doha situation

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